• Kyle

      Thanks for letting me know, I will definitely investigate this company and do a thorough review on them. I hate to hear when people are getting scammed by companies like this and there just happens to be so much of this going on within the SEO services world.

  1. Michael Walls

    PS – @Laurence

    Also beware of people who want to manage your PPC. They are merely RE-sellers of Google AdWords, etc.

    If you deal directly with Google, when no one clicks, you don’t pay. In managed PPC campaigns, you pay a flat fee – every click you DON’T get, they make money on.!!

    • Kyle

      Absolutely a good point Michael. PPC management companies are the grime of the industry, taking up to a 50% cut on top of the advertising fees, using these sort of companies are a good way to “waste” money versus learning how to properly use Google Adwords in house. These PPC companies have a tendency to go after higher bid prices and higher volume traffic keywords (which are both bad approaches) just so you spend more and they can earn a bigger cut.

  2. Michael Walls

    I do SEO for a living and I can tell you – most outfits can not be trusted. Since SEO is an ongoing, or recurring agreement, many that don’t have recurring contracts want in.

    Many are “big box” agencies that impress prospects with a client list built on print design, packager design, etc. – totally unrelated skill set.

    Buyer beware, and if you find a good one that doesn’t demand your firstborn, treat him good – they are rare.

    • Kyle

      I couldn’t agree with you more Michael. They build their SEO clients based on past clients versus what they can actually do. I have worked with and helped too many people that are in a “recovery” situation because their SEO companies that they have paid $1,000’s have destroyed their SEO.

  3. Laurence

    Hello Kyle,

    Thank you for the nice article, could you give the link again to get trained on SEO?
    What about PPC campaigns, would you recommend having a company managing it? Is it the same story as SEO companies?

    Thank you,

    • Kyle

      The training within the Getting Started Course inside of WA will walk you through the SEO process and as you move through the levels of the training, it will get more advanced.

  4. Eric


    Thanks a million for the information in this blog. After being ripped by a couple of SEO companies we are searching for a reputable firm/individual that can help with content marketing and everything else that Google recommends doing. Can you tell me if marketersbraintrust f/k/a seobraintrust is legit and therefore worth hiring? Can you publish a list of reputable seo/content marketing firms here or email them to me?

    Much appreciated.

    Thanx again,


    • Kyle

      In most cases, you are going to be overpaying for these services Eric. If you are trying to get your website or local business ranked, it is best to learn the process yourself. It is not all that complex and any company claiming they will get you ‘quality’ backlinks and citations, are companies you want to steer away from. You can accomplish this yourself in a much more cost efficient way.

      I would be more than happy to help you out with this within Wealthy Affiliate if you like (create a free account here), totally free to get started and you will be able to communicate directly with me over there. We have an abundance of local marketing and SEO training that actually works and can be implemented directly by you, without the overhead of paying into these over-priced and often shady SEO companies.

  5. rufat

    Agree with Kyle!!

    Yes, I know this from my own experience. I had my website in 2001 and paid SEO company. What happened? Nothing.
    Thank you Kyle for this great post.

  6. April

    Hi Kyle,
    I am starting a web design company. I have done freelance work in the past. I want to offer SEO services to my clients. I would prefer to refer them to WA to learn it for themselves, but I find most prefer to let others handle that. For the record, I use on-page SEO and content creation for results. I also use Street Articles and the occasional HubPage to refer traffic.

    How do you recommend that these services be marketed? You say that $600 a month is too much. Even if you are providing quality content on a daily basis? It takes a lot of effort to write all of that content. It takes a lot of effort to ensure your sub-contractors deliver a quality product.

    Could tell us what you think content-based SEO services should cost?

    • Kyle

      You are different April, you understand the fundamentals of SEO and the proper techniques to get pages ranked (because of your training). If you can provide $600 per month per value to a company and you are offering them $600 worth of service, by all means do this. Some companies are not willing to (or don’t have the time) to learn this stuff and there is nothing wrong with charging for your services and knowledge.

    • angel

      Hi April,

      I am interested to talk more with you about the SEO that you offer. Do you have a number/ email address I can contact you on?

      Thanks 🙂

      • Kyle

        We teach SEO the proper way. If you are interested in learning how to get ranked in search engines, I do recommend that you at the very least take us up on our Starter membership (completely free). If you have any more questions moving forward, you will be able to ask me within WA (as you can connect with me there) or if you have any specific SEO questions, I can help you out here Angel.

  7. Kyle G

    Hi Kyle

    Very Nice article

    Do you have any articles on those all in-one E-commerce sites like Volusion or Bigcommerce.

    I have a site on Volusion and yes I haven’t done keywords for all my products or added products to all the categories but we still don’t get much traffic and don’t know what is wrong.

    Volusion wants about $600 a month to SEO my site.

    The last 4 months has been hell working with Freelancers to edit our online store. When Volusion wanted a little more money but in 1 week my site would be complete.

    Should I use them to SEO my site for about 3 months and see if I get any results during the Christmas season on Snowboard gear for example.

    just looking for your thoughts on this company.

    thanks for your time

    Kyle G

    • Kyle

      No, you absolutely shouldn’t. You should learn the proper SEO techniques yourself and you will be MUCH more successful with your website. Companies like this are a complete scam in my personal opinion and I am not sure what they are offering for $600 per month, but that is far too much money for something that you can learn yourself.

      If they mention things like:

      -content submission
      -search engine submission
      _in content optimization

      That is a true sign they are using “dated” techniques and they will likely just end up taking your money with little results. If you want some real training and real help with your business, I could offer you TWO years of education, tools, expert help, and the ability to network with million dollar entrepreneurs within Wealthy Affiliate. At the very least, check out the free Starter membership, you will be glad you did.

  8. Glenn

    Obviously your Search engine optimization is pretty good since I found this site! I 🙂 I’d really appreciate it if you could write some articles on SEO and divulge some of your strategies and techniques…that would be awesome Kyle.

    • Kyle

      I definitely speak about SEO on a regular basis and will reveal some of the strategies here within my blog, but if you want a true education on SEO and want to learn how to get properly ranked in Google, I suggest you join me within the Wealthy Affiliate community the top education platform out there on SEO and many other subjects related to running a successful business online.

  9. Excellent article Kyle. You should consider calling out some of these so-called “gurus”. Take apart there systems and expose the legit ones from the scammers. Actually I think I will do that too.

    • Kyle

      Definitely will be part of the plan moving forward Troy. There are far too many people getting “taken” by programs out there and it is time that many of them become aware of them before they end up investing their hard earned money. I hope this really helps folks realize the scams taking place in the SEO industry and think twice about paying companies for their SEO services.

  10. George Williams

    Obviously your SEO is pretty good since I found this site 🙂 I’d really appreciate it if you could write some articles on CPA networks. Even some of the bigger ones have problems. If not, continue what you’re doing man.

    • Kyle

      I definitely will George. As time goes on I have plans for a lot more content, many more reviews, and I plan to help a lot more people get moving in the right direction online. Frankly, there are too many people giving “poor” advice out there and there are enough scams and hoaxes out there to keep me busy for a lifetime.

  11. Great article Kyle!!!

    Thank you very much for the time you put in for this great content that keeps reminding us what SEO is all about these days.

    IMO, search engines have become very sophisticated the last few years and this is leading us all into one simple direction or strategy for our online business: quality, frequent, relevant content!

    To tell you the truth, I feel kind of free with this “new strategy”, this new approach to SEO! I never tried to game the system completely, forgetting my readers and their expectations out of my content, but I did use to strive for backlinks, spin my content and submit it for off-page optimization, pay for social bookmarks and spend hours and hours on this “SEO work”.

    Now I can spend all this time writing more and more quality content focusing on content marketing techniques like the one you demonstrated to all of us very naturally and elegantly in your last paragraph.

    English is not my native language Kyle and this means that if you need 15 minutes to write this very nice article of yours, I would perhaps need twice that much. So keeping my SEO strategy as simple as it is supposed to be (writing naturally flown content that provides solutions to people’s problems or questions) gives me more time to focus on writing more content.

    SEO companies should steer their services into a more consulting-centric approach. Consulting on content creation, social media presence and simple on-page optimization. My 2 cents…

    Thanks Kyle!

    • Kyle

      Absolutely, they are getting more sophisticated with their knowledge of human language. If folks don’t think that Google Docs was created in part to understand human language and how people write, then they are fooled. Google knows what they are doing and they are getting a better handle on how to find quality content, which has nothing to do with how many links you have going to your content, how many times you say the keyword, how many people Facebook Like your content. It comes down to the quality of content.

      One thing that has remained a complete “static” over the years is the fact that although Google changes, they have always sought out the highest quality user experience, which means finding and ranking quality content. Follow that and you will be successful in the long term within search engines, in particular google.

  12. Dave A.

    Bravo!! Kyle,

    Love your article. I am one of those guys that got suckered into paying 5 grand for SEO services and also for 15 keywords to be ranking on the 1st page of Google.

    In 12 months NEVER HAPPENED! Matter-of-fact Google has no idea that my website letsgocampgear.com even exists. I get even more calls from different companies wanting to sell me even more SEO services. There are some silver tongued devils out there that are very good at selling bad services.

    • Kyle

      Sorry to hear that you succumb to one of these SEO operations (there are many out there). By offering your story here, I know that you are going to help prevent other folks from getting sucked into these high ticket SEO services…so I do thank you for that.

      Unfortunately, the SEO world is like the “social expert” world…these folks have no idea what they are doing but will sell you on the idea that the know. If anyone is trying to sell backlinks or article submission services (mass), it is a sure way that they are offering a service that is outdated and will only end up hurting your business. Hopefully with some awareness folks will not get taken in by scams like this going forward.

  13. RonnyG

    The SEO Business is a Very Simple Business.

    You pick the proper KW. Kw’s are nothing more than a person looking for an answer to their question or their request for information.

    When you write content… if it is solely focused on providing the answer to their question or request for information;it is of good interesting quality, then your SEO job is complete, and now you search for more questions (KW’s) and and write more content.

    I learned from two of the best in the industry. Now if they just knew how to pronounce “niche” it would be all be good!

    • Kyle

      Well said Ronny. SEO is simple if you make the focus of your activities the “recipient” of your content, not how the actual search engine algorithms work. The fortunate thing for those of us that get it is that there will always be a large percentage of so-called SEO experts chasing search engine holes and getting burned as a result.

  14. Alan

    I can understand your rant when you can prove this much of a scam.

    Unfortunately scams will always be on the internet.

    Neither Google you or me will stop them.

    Hopefully people will do their due diligence BEFORE taken out their credit card!!!

    • Kyle

      You are right, we cannot stop them but we can absolutely do our best to bring them to people’s attention. Hopefully everyone that reads this will do their due dilligence when considering an SEO service, and ideally will take the time to learn how SEO works themselves. Too many people source out the CORE component of their businesses..and in the case, to companies that will end up costing you even more business as a result!

  15. Charles

    Very insightful. However, without backlinks, there is no getting traffic from Google. I’ve tested it. New websites don’t appear in Google even for the most obscure keywords – even for 5-word keywords with a <50 QSR – until they start gaining backlinks, whether naturally or artificially. So should we be creating content and waiting for months and years hoping that some authority sites in our niche link to us, or should we be buying backlinks and dominating the SERPs in weeks or a few months?

    Everyone builds links one way or another. Heck, even big online shopping sites like Amazon and Overstock have an SEO team that build backlinks for them because they want to rank above their organic search rivals. I think backlinks will remain unavoidably instrumental for high rankings for a long time to come.

    • Kyle

      Charles, unfortunately I have to say you are 100% incorrect. Backlinks are by very nature, BAD these days in respect to search engine rankings. Google has made strong announcements in respect to this and I do suggest that if you are following folks that are still preaching the benefits of backlinks, you consider finding some new and reputable friends within the industry.

      • Charles

        I follow several popular blogs about internet marketing (just like I follow yours) and their owners publish case studies sometimes where they rank websites in Google using backlinks (the same thing SEO companies do) and they usually get to #1 in Google in less than 3 months. I don’t want to go to extremes to assert my opinion, so I won’t mention the URL of those blogs here.

        That said, like I said in one of my previous comments, I’m really interested in testing this – whether ranking in Google is possible without building links. My next website (which I plan on building 2 mths from now) will be the testing ground, but I’ll make sure I purchase Jaaxy first before I begin. Until then…I maintain my stance (albeit rather dubiously ;-))

        • Kyle

          I can tell you it is possible and I see folks out there with “backlinks” dropping like flies around me and those people that are taking the approach of quality content, succeeding like crazy. It is NOT NEW that backlinks will hurt rankings, Google has been slowly punishing sites with heavy backlinks for quite some time now. In recent years, I have completely dropped backlinks from my SEO agenda and rankings have never been better or never held as long as they do.

  16. Deborah

    Lots of great information here to digest and mull over. Thanks for going to the time and effort to keep us educated!

    • Kyle

      No problem Deborah, glad I could add some clarity to the SEO world for you. It has crooks just like any other type of business.

  17. Sherry B

    Great info Kyle! It’s amazing how much people pay for someone else to do SEO, especially without checking out how much this so called SEO site actually knows about SEO first! What a shame actually.

    It would make me wonder why this company’s site doesn’t even show up in Google, but is saying they can get my site ranked high. You’d think at that price they’d check at least that before paying for their service!

    • Kyle

      Nothing surprises me anymore to be completely honest. I see vultures like this all around and it dilutes people’s trust within online businesses. There are SEO companies like this everywhere, but that is just the start. There are companies and affiliate trying to promote the idea of mass backlinks (which will do more harm than good), automated tools and services for SEO (which don’t work), and expensive coaching programs where the people teaching have no idea what they are doing.

      The quickest way to see if an SEO company has a lick of knowledge, is to research their own optimization. You will find more often than not they have no idea what they are doing.

  18. Kali Webb

    I get so much spam from these companies. I ignore them all. I have always relied on the information you provided in WA training. I steer clear.

    By the way, I don’t know if I consider bringing this to my attention a rant.

    Awesome service you provide, my friend.

    • Kyle

      SEO companies that have to spam you should say something about their ability to market online (it is null). The only reason I call it a rant is that it is just another one of those things that frustrates me about the industry we preside in. The faceless Internet where folks get away with what I think is criminal activity and they think it is OK. Just because you SAY it’s a service, doesn’t mean it is actually a legitimate one.

      Avoid these companies at any cost (and definitely do your due diligence if you do decide to go with one), more often than not your business will actually be WORSE off from using them and you will be out a bunch of money.

  19. Steve Sharp

    Ha! This is a great article and I’m an SEO guy.

    Many of us in SEO have used the tactics mentioned and many black hat techniques to get sites ranking.

    The fact is the game has radically changed over the last year and it’s no longer easy to get sites ranked organically.

    I’m always looking for the best and safest way to help clients. The truth is I no longer want to take on the low hanging fruit clients that are looking for cheap SEO.

    This process is much more involved now. Depending on your niche could take a lot of content to get you ranking.

    I happened to look at one of my own review sites that I don’t put much energy in today and wow it’s ranking for 41 keywords with only adding content to my surprise. I have done nothing else and actually forgot about the site. I wouldn’t say the content is awesome either.

    On the other hand, my NEW SEO site that I’ve been trying to get bugs worked out on since it was delivered to me in January isn’t ranking a single keyword. Again I’ve done nothing but add content. No backlinking although I do have some links.

    My own SEO industry will be the toughest of all niches to get ranking because of the competition. Not to mention the lack of work and newness of the site. Truth is most of us working for clients don’t put that much time into our own sites. I have 10 sites and thought I was done with affiliate marketing before seeing one of my sites actually gaining in the serps over the last month.

    I’m a member of Wealthy Affiliate and SEO BrainTrust and both are very reputable. Yes, it is difficult for me to not use old techniques. I’m no longer spinning articles for syndication and have stopped many other techniques that were achieving great results last year. Now I’m looking into repost.us and streetarticles.com but not sure how much they actually help sites.

    At the end of the day we are all gaming the system in some way to get sites ranked and we have all have had our successes.

    Figuring out how to get sites ranking is what we do and there are bad guys and good guys in every industry.

    • Kyle

      Hey Steven,

      Thanks for the feedback. I can appreciate where you are coming from with most of your comments, but there is definitely some things that you have stated that I disagree. We may agree to disagree here, but here are the statements that you made that I found somewhat bothersome:

      I’m always looking for the best and safest way to help clients.

      Then content should have always been your focus. This has always been and will always remain the safest way. There has been one static over the years in respect to what Google is looking for, quality content. Every SINGLE one of their algorithm changes has been in attempt to remove low quality content in order for the high quality content to move to the top. Yes this definition has changed to those trying to game, but to those creating quality content from the start have not seen anything but more traffic with every update that Google rolls out.

      My own SEO industry will be the toughest of all niches to get ranking because of the competition.

      The competition? Did you not read the post lol. Yes, there are some really smart folks in the SEO industry, but a good deal of your competition has no idea what they are doing. This is good for you and if you understand the process of SEO, you will get rankings within any industry. Some say the “make money” industry is a difficult one to get into, but I would beg to differ. It is quite easy…when you understand SEO.

      At the end of the day we are all gaming the system in some way to get sites ranked and we have all have had our successes.

      If that is your approach, you are going to have some very unhappy clients. Sure they will be happy when a gaming technique works temporarily, but when it ends up collapsing their entire online component of their traffic, they are not going to be happy with you.

      This is what I call chasing holes and NO, not all of us are gaming the system. Some of us simply deliver what our audiences are looking for, the SEO results do follow. I have seen it over and over again…and I have also seen those that don’t believe me with my statements against “gaming techniques, come back crying when their sites disappear forever from Google and other SE’s.

      In saying all of this, I think you are one of the good guys within the industry and you will only become better if you follow the principles of the audience, versus that of the SEO world. The SEO world has no principles.

      • Steve Sharp

        Okay Kyle, I’m going to dig into WA more and see what I can learn from you. Internet Marketing is always changing and I’m always learning. I guess the content thing has not changed because I have been hearing that for years.

        In 2007 I built my first blog and was told to add content. After 10 articles I was a little burnt out on telling people how to buy or sell a business.

        Along the way I found a book ‘Search Engine Optimization an hour a day’ and applied those methods and was quickly ranking. Then I found India backlink teams. The final magic bullet was an ebook called fast track SEO but now most all that can be detrimental to a site.

        I get it. It’s content but still have trouble believing it. I do have content written for all my clients and manage the content.

        I have found it more difficult to have content written for my seoimr.com site and I’m looking to pay guest contributors to write about PPC, SMM and SEO. I currently only have one SEO writing contributor and his SEO methods are a little to far out of the box at times. I’m not that great of a writer and this post is about my limit right now. 🙂

        PS Maybe you can recommend some advanced WA training without me starting at how to setup a website. I’m sure all your training would be helpful.

        • Kyle

          Sounds Steve. The internet is always changing and that is why it is such an exciting place to be! 🙂 But in respect to SEO, one thing that has never changed is Google’s goal with their search engine. Quality user experience. To achieve these, they need to deliver the highest quality results which means the highest quality content.

          There are holes that are always created within their algo and those are patched up eventually as they find that people can game them. First it was meta tags, then it was density, then it was length of content and type of content, then it was backlinks, then it was in bound anchor text links…but as we move forward, it is becoming more and more centered around content. Those that have produced quality over the years are seeing the biggest improvements they ever have with each Panda or Penguin update, those that are buying backlinks are basically ending up in one big unhappy sandobx.

          We have an entire classroom within WA dedicated to SEO (in the premium membership) and I recommend you check that out. We also have hours of recent video on it within the Live Video Classes. Everything you need is there and if you have any questions, just ask for some support.

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